To continue our discussion for Double Indemnity, post to the comments of the panel. Questioners should post their questions even if we discussed them already. They'll provide us something to refer to and offer opportunity for further comment. To post a comment, click on the No Comments link (which is an observation rather than an imperative). It probably should read Add a Comment.
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ReplyDeleteSo, here are my questions from Tuesday night's movie:
ReplyDelete1.) John Seitz (the DP for DOUBLE INDEMNITY), created striking visuals that helped define the aesthetics of the noir genre. I would argue that the visuals that he created also offered some of the most significant character development for the characters of Neff and Phyllis. With that in mind, in what way do the visual aspects of noir drive not just the narrative but character development?
2.) Billy Wilder and Raymond Chandler had a notoriously rocky relationship while writing DOUBLE INDEMNITY. It drove Chandler back to drinking and Wilder's THE LOST WEEKEND is based on Chandler. In what way did their relationship shape the film? Did it significantly impact Wilder's career post-DI?
3.) DOUBLE INDEMNITY was thought to be unfilmable under the Hays Code because of its bizarre nature and the depiction of sexually deviant behavior. In the end of the novel, Walter and Phyllis jump off of a boat and commit suicide by shark (how would that figure into Keyes's calculations?), and the sex is made plain. Furthermore, Wilder's original ending for the film had Neff going to the gas chamber with Keyes as a witness. Beyond these specific changes, how else did the Hays Code impact the making of the film? Did this self-imposed censorship create a more compelling narrative?
4.) Arguably, the only intimate, loving, relationship that happens on the screen is between Neff and Keyes. How does this relationship guide Walter's actions? Is he merely a man with something to prove? Or is he a man that has something to prove to someone? If it is the latter, is that someone Keyes and why?
Wow, good information. I love that in the novel they commit suicide by shark. Keyes would have right on top of that though. His little man inside would have sniffed it out.
ReplyDeleteFor number four, I did get the sense there was a father/son relationship of some sort there. When Keyes says something to the effect of "get out of here before I throw my desk at you" and Neff replies "I love you too" and then the voiceover mentions that he is telling the truth about loving him, I felt like it was the love between father and son. I suppose it could be the love between best friends as well, as the joking makes it seem more like ribbing between buddies, but the age difference (at least I think there was) made it feel more like father/son. As for having something to prove, maybe it was more like the master/apprentice relationship, and he wanted to show his master that he could stump him. I'm not sure, but I really liked their relationship. When Keyes was first introduced, I felt like he was going to be an unlikable character, yet that clearly did not turn out to be the case. Finally, the last lines "The guy you were looking for was too close. Across the desk from you" and Keyes replies "Closer than that" and Neff responds "I love you too" was a really touching way to end the movie, in my opinion at least. Having Keyes admit, in so many words, how close the two were, was great. I'm glad it ended this way and not with the electric chair.
As for the sexual content, I thought it was kind of funny how cold the physical interaction between Neff and Phyllis was. At one point, doesn't she say something like "you're hurting me" and he tells her to "shut up" and kisses her? I thought their embraces were fantastic. Do lovers hold each other like they do in this movie? Lord, I hope not. It was so awkward and uncomfortable to see. I thought maybe it was how people did it back then, but it might make more sense if it was because of the Hays Code. You wouldn't want to make the embraces TOO sexy, I suppose.
Paternalistic does seem a good way to characterize Keyes' and Walter's relationship. His disappointment with Walter at the end especially feels that way.
ReplyDeleteThe Hays Code influence on Walter and Phyllis embraces are a definite possibility. Directors were very conscious of how such things might appear to the board. Hitchcock famously involved Cary Grant and Eva Marie Saint in an extend and awkward embrace that wasn't entirely one just to tweak them.
The question I have would pretain to the ages of the characters in the film. How old were they? Especially the character of Phyllis.
ReplyDeleteThe film how I took it in a way gives movies of our generation such as "Basic Instinct" and "Lolita" a starting point to see the actual dynamic of a femme fatal in a movie using her feminine ways to get what she wants, even driving men to murder others. Great film.
Phyllis and Walter are in their middle thirties (about the ages of the actors). The later films you mention and others (as we'll see) work off the film noir model.
ReplyDeleteI thought paternalistic too. I don't think one could argue that they had a romantic relationship of any sort. It seems more father son. The end almost seems like a son feeling guilty about doing something like taking a cookie before dinner and then trying to apologize for it. (I know that's a bad example).
ReplyDeleteWalter is always trying to prove something to Keyes and think like him. He is trying to live up to his standards, but not become him. He doesn't take the assistant job.
Oh yeah, the Keyes/Neff relationship isn't sexual. When you point out that he's trying to live up Keyes's standards, I think that's the (ahem) key to understanding the relationship as father/son dynamic.
DeleteIs comedy used a lot in noir? I noticed during our movie tuesday that a lot of us were laughing at several parts. Is this unique to the movie or a standard in noir?
ReplyDeleteEnough already about Keyes being the hero of the movie. I think that credit should go to Edward Norton, Jr. When Keyes and Neff were summoned to Norton's office, Keyes was ready to cut a check. Though he may have been misguided in his suicide idea, Norton was spot-on with all of the convenient facts surrounding the death. This included: Mr. Jackson leaving to get cigars, travelling alone, going out onto the observation platform with a broken leg, and financial worries that Mr. Dietrichson might have.
ReplyDeleteKeyes had no doubts about this case until later that evening when the broken leg was starting to bother him. What put this doubt into Keyes' mind? Keyes blamed it on the "little man" and his 26 years of experience, but was it really Norton? Regardless, I feel that Norton deserves at least some of the spotlight in cracking this case.
I saw the Keyes/Neff relationship mostly as best friends at first, but agree in the father/son relationship as movie progressed. I find it interesting ( and mind boggling) that the Hays code was so overly uptight and concerned about showing anything too sexual (even innuendos), but it's ok to show it's alright to hit women, man handle them, and treat them as second class, hmmm. I did get a kick out of the dialog, especially the way Walter says baby all the time; comical. Great film.
ReplyDelete